Curse

angmar_nite · Aug 17, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Well, techincally, its is not that easy.

You have to find people who are compatible with your playstyle, your personality and with similar goals.

On top of that, they shouldnt be assholes which have pug-mentality as far as on what good builds are and on dealing wilth losses.

Then you want guild without guild/alliance drama and politics. No cliques, no gumpy sexualy frustrated 30 year olds who are pissed at everything, no kiddies doing "kthxbai" thing.

Then they probably should be able to actually "win pve" while not being narrowminded vets.

Well you just summed up sms

Tyla · Aug 17, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I say he summed up [TAM]. Discuss!

Magikarp · Aug 17, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

well i managed to do it easily enough. I even turned down 14 guild invites. Once i joined i just jumped right in and teamed up for anything that i was interested in. That builds trust better than anything while also helping you progress with your in game goals.

Finding a siutable guild really is that easy. It's just most people are lazy. They either accept the first invite they get or simply turn to kamadan for a guild.
The best way is to add a post here on guru, check out a few guild recruiting messages here on guru or on the official wiki, check with guilds of people on your friends list then inquire with those guilds and actually play with them before joining.

i disagree, especially to that of a competent guild. i've been in 5 guilds in my 3 years, and 3 of them were total asshats, even though they were also considered "elite". nothing but bad players, egomaniacs, and stubborn tank n' spankers.

Fitz Rinley · Aug 17, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I understand the Ursan nerf. It made the use of Ursan more fair across the board. There were power house builds like what I had set up with a ParaSin Ursan build that could maintain it indefinately - or damn close. (Even though I am only rank 6 and so never got to use it for vanquishing, farming UW, etc.) The time limit on Ursan - regardless of your energy level means you have to take a break between assaults and plan your tactics. It has effectively done little to the power of Ursan, but it has extended the time it takes to use it to get one's goals accomplished. With the exceptional cost in gold and time to prepare for GW2 via the HoM (the only point now left to the games since ANet no longer cares about GW1) we have been punished some more for finding something that works.

As to the guild situation, I have an alliance. I play with the good people in it when our goals match or I know they cannot get through a section without real people who know the mission. PUGing is not bad because without it you would never meet new people to play with. However, PUGing in elite areas will always be bad because many of those there believe in their own perfection. Since they are perfect and have little real life time to raise the 19 million plus gold for things they need to accomplish - they are short tempered and ill mannered. The presures causing the social problems in GW are created by GW.

Krill · Aug 18, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

It takes awhile to find a guild you like. Since GW still has a fairly large player base by any standard, befriending players randomly is kinda hard unless you spend a lot of time doing one thing or happen to find yourself as a ringer in a guild group. Unfortunately most guilds grossly overstate what they offer, making the guilds that are ran well with active, experienced players that aren't retarded assholes (in the truest sense of the word) hard to find.

the_jos · Aug 18, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It isn't the guild's job to help you whenever you cry about it. Other people want to play the game and have fun, not babysit other players.

I agree with you.
If you join a guild and find yourself constantly asking for help you are not in the right guild.
I don't mind people asking for help once in a while.
But most of the time the response they get from me is a series of questions.
What goes well, what goes wrong, what do you think makes you fail?
If I feel like it I might join, but I refuse to get someone further in the game where they will be a burden to other players.
Most important is to find a guild at your level, not the level you want to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arienrhode

Unfortunately most guilds grossly overstate what they offer, making the guilds that are ran well with active, experienced players that aren't retarded assholes (in the truest sense of the word) hard to find.

What is a bigger problem most of the time is for less active players to get into the active player group.
If you play once in a week and others play daily you risk to be the last pick for events.
And about retarded assholes, I think you did not want to read my mind in the FoW group I joined yesterday. I didn't express my annoyance that much but it was obvious to the others that I wasn't really having fun.
For an outsider it's easy to think that I'm some kind of asshole while I just wasn't in the mood for the kind of fun some others were having (like a guildie running around with no armor while I was counting when my PS on him would wear off so I didn't waste too much energy on him).

cataphract · Aug 18, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

I already miss the "PRO URSAN LFG" spams in ToA. Loved them.

Kusandaa · Aug 18, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It isn't the guild's job to help you whenever you cry about it. Other people want to play the game and have fun, not babysit other players.

Which of these would you be more likely to answer?

1) OMG guyz I need a help with Thunderhead Keep, it's soooooo hard. If you don't help me, you're an elitist!!!!!!1111

2)Hey, anyone up for THK HM? I have cookies.

Player 1 is clearly an asshole, and I'll pretend to be afk. Player 2 is probably also an asshole, but at least he's a fun one who won't be completely useless.

QFT. Dunno how I missed this post...

I've had cases where simply because I'm an officer, they expected me to be constantly helping them, giving them builds, tagging along in missions. These players left pretty fast because we're not that type of guild. We expect our players to be at a similar level OR be willing to improve fast enough to catch up with us.

Example: we were pretty big on ToPK a while back. Our monk dragged his ranger and his necro over there just to learn the different spots to make groups faster - I taught him how to pull and he's got all the skills to fill up any spots in there. So can I. He's generally a monk and I'm generally a b/p puller, but we're able to switch depending of what our group needs. Same thing with our usual MM. This enables us to bring people to have them learning the area, then helping them getting to our level.

I might help for a couple missions, but I expect my folks to play on their own as well as with other people. So far it works, and when we have someone who keeps asking for constant help, we get tired of it fast.

Trub · Aug 18, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I say he summed up [TAM]. Discuss!

Quote:

Well you just summed up sms

I say both!
Wait, I'm 'IN' both...whoa..head rush!

OT:
I think this post sums it all up in a nutshell:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
It isn't the guild's job to help you whenever you cry about it. Other people want to play the game and have fun, not babysit other players.

These 'Elitists' players some folks seem to be complaining about do not exist.
The players that know GW...well, they're around, and enjoying their game in a guild team, laughing at the purple drops a guildie got from a high end chest...

carnage-runner · Aug 18, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Guildwars has recoiled to that unfortunate zone yet again. Everyone old enough remembers that when this game first started THK was a haven for pugs to join groups. (along with other areas, THK is a god like example though) The concept of someone not having the right build, or being too noobish never really applied. It simply just meant the party had to help said person along, which was usually done with eager anticipation.

To go into ToA, which I have been doing for 31 months, and get rejected from groups full of 10 month old accounts, makes me sick. I have participated in many different types of dual runs, team runs, traps, solo farms (of my own creating), chest runs (btw WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE! so much fun), and clearing attempts. To reject a player from a group for reasons other than we have 7 non monks is just annoying.

Everyone should grow up, and remember that the game is supposed to be fun, not monotonous. Try some new group styles out, get to know random people, AND QUIT MAKING TOA A HAVEN FOR ABSOLUTE IDIOTS.

Kusandaa · Aug 18, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnage-runner

Guildwars has recoiled to that unfortunate zone yet again. Everyone old enough remembers that when this game first started THK was a haven for pugs to join groups. (along with other areas, THK is a god like example though) The concept of someone not having the right build, or being too noobish never really applied. It simply just meant the party had to help said person along, which was usually done with eager anticipation.

To go into ToA, which I have been doing for 31 months, and get rejected from groups full of 10 month old accounts, makes me sick. I have participated in many different types of dual runs, team runs, traps, solo farms (of my own creating), chest runs (btw WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE! so much fun), and clearing attempts. To reject a player from a group for reasons other than we have 7 non monks is just annoying.

Everyone should grow up, and remember that the game is supposed to be fun, not monotonous. Try some new group styles out, get to know random people, AND QUIT MAKING TOA A HAVEN FOR ABSOLUTE IDIOTS.

I think some of us should team up together at some point. I'm serious, as I find it hard to find other people interested in doing other stuff than cookie-cutter, and with HiDE's activity level... couldn't hurt to get more people for fun.

I had that experience for the first time in some while yesterday, actually. Couple of alliance folks ended up making a laid-back FoW run and we took a few PUGs. Our group ended up as a Flashing Blades assassin (me), a snarer/fire nuker (a PUG), a full fire nuker (guildie), SS necro (guildie), a battery (PUG that we took last minute and didn't ping his build, not that we cared), an imbagon (MrSlayer

) and a HBoon monk with her N/Rt healer (guildie). Sadly the PUG ele and our monk d/c'ed and the N/Rt wasn't enough with my aggro-happy attitude

. (I really tried toning it down, I did!)

It was FUN. No one was in a rush, no one got mad when the ele had to go take care of his/her little brother, or when our monk d/c'ed. No one was mad when we wiped near Burning Forest... my friends also didn't care too much that I messed up horribly on my build, or that the battery only used BR during the whole run. My message from the monk was clear: "attack through SS! I need to work here!"

I really missed that kinda stuff.

carnage-runner · Aug 18, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

"I think some of us should team up together at some point."

I agree. IGN: Carnage Runner I'm always game for something, and I really don't care what.

This is not madness after Ursan Nerf. I have no problem running around Dwarven Stance hammer smashing stuff. I love it, actually get to use my weapons I spent ridiculous amounts of money on.

Anyone who wants to do some Old School, straight up, PVE, the way our professions were designed to do them. Give me a PM, I will be down for most anything.

Snow Bunny · Aug 18, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Carnage, while I admire you desire to pug up, this game is 3 years old. THK was never a haven for pugs. THK was a source of frustration for many.
People who are good at this game eventually took some initiative and found good guilds/friends to play with. I am done pugging. I have exercised my last bit of altruistic patience to pug after this weekend, where despite my best efforts, none of the pugs worked because they were too damn stubborn to take some advice.
THK only had a lot of pugs because so many people needed to get through that mission; same reason Vizunah Square had so many pugs. The learning curve was so steep for many. It didn't concern anything about a desire to grab-and-go, it was out of necessity for most.

Taki · Aug 19, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

True, THK was a pain for many. But there were always lots of districts with tons of groups forming, reforming and calling each other names. It's where you either had to stop and think through builds and strategies or get carried through by those who knew what they were doing.

Looking back, I realize that THK was the point where I stopped joining other groups and used hench almost exclusively. Hell, if hench could do something so easily that "morans" (note the 'a') couldn't, there was no need to put up with ppl after that. Wonder how many other players THK converted to henchlovers

cataphract · Aug 19, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

These 'Elitists' players some folks seem to be complaining about do not exist.

Ofcourse they do exist. The trick is to ignore them most of the time and interact with them when you're bored and looking for fun.

the_jos · Aug 19, 2008, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

Looking back, I realize that THK was the point where I stopped joining other groups and used hench almost exclusively. Hell, if hench could do something so easily that "morans" (note the 'a') couldn't, there was no need to put up with ppl after that. Wonder how many other players THK converted to henchlovers

THK was one of the missions I spend a lot of time on.
Always shortage on monks and I liked playing monk there even when teams failed from once in a while. Same with Hell's, I think I can still dream that one.

The time I stopped playing PUG was when it started to take ages to get a team together. That was the late canthan missions I think.
I don't mind playing for half an hour, fail and succeed the second time.
I do mind waiting an hour, fail after half an hour and waiting another hour to get a new team going....

persuadu · Aug 19, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

I completely understand the Ursan Nerf, and why all the QQ's could not be ignored. I was an Ursan Junkie for sure, but I was excited to see what people would figure out once that was taken away. People have come up with alternatives and work arounds for sure, but I also feel Anet missed their goal.

Ursan was nerfed/buffed supposedly to make it so people did not have to grind to R10 Norn to get in a group, but now, guess what? There are no Ursan groups!! The work arounds are more complex and now you will only be able to take guild teams in with Ursan because of that. Being an ursan now excludes you from more runs than it would have gotten you into with PUG team.

The activity level has dropped significantly and since they are delaying the Hall of Monuments upgrade to tormented wepons, they have not created a higher demand for Gems/Ecto so nobody is working on a PUGable DOA/UW team.

I think the Ursan Nerf was a good idea for the most part, but they also needed to include something that would make the Farms/Runs of these areas just as appealing.

Now Shadow Form is the Skill to have and if you DONT have a Sin or Ele with that, you can forget UW. 600/Smite/Famine can farm areas but not clear all in DoA. Does that make it more inclusive for everyone or does it exlude more classes? Ele and Sin, MINUS Monk, Ranger, Warrior, Paragon for the hardcore and all the other classes that could run "squishy" ursan. This is not more inclusive, it just went back to being even more EXCLUSIVE.

As far as I am concerned this will work out just fine for me. What my concern /complaint is that more and more mainstream/average people are playing less and/or quitting. I hate to see that. More people playing makes for a more enjoyable experience. Anet took away something from All Classes, yet left SF in tact if not better for the Ele/Sin folks. I understand thier motive, but the results should be obvious now.

IMHO Anets attempt to balance Ursan - Good Work!

IMHO Anets attempt to include more people in gameplay - Fail! This hurt more of your average player base than it helped. Now only elite players and guild teams can do this with Ursan, and the Shadow Form folks continue to prosper. Had this been a truely fair update to all classes and levels of player, Armbraces and Ectos would have skyrocketed.

Anet - I hope you seriously re-look this situation before you lose more players in the ever shrinking world you control.

R.Shayne · Aug 19, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Even though I never liked ursan I can understand why many of them are upset. They did all that work just so they could get into pugs and now that works counts for nothing.

Elitist players do exist and they like to call themselves hardcore (yeah that means I am an elitist) but it also means I play at a certain level and I would like to find friends that play at the same level. I don't like guilds, constantly getting pm'ed to help other people, so the occasional pug would be my only chance to find new friends.

I don't mind showing people things, have taught several how to 600, and found a few good friends along the way. I have also tried to teach people to 600 but they refuse to do the attribute quest and/or get the right equipment.

If they do not want to make some effort in the basic area then I am not going to waste my time on them trying to show them something they are not ready to do yet. I just wish there was a way to identify these people before you let them into a pug.

Kusandaa · Aug 19, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

Now Shadow Form is the Skill to have and if you DONT have a Sin or Ele with that, you can forget UW. 600/Smite/Famine can farm areas but not clear all in DoA. Does that make it more inclusive for everyone or does it exlude more classes? Ele and Sin, MINUS Monk, Ranger, Warrior, Paragon for the hardcore and all the other classes that could run "squishy" ursan. This is not more inclusive, it just went back to being even more EXCLUSIVE.

As far as I am concerned this will work out just fine for me. What my concern /complaint is that more and more mainstream/average people are playing less and/or quitting. I hate to see that. More people playing makes for a more enjoyable experience. Anet took away something from All Classes, yet left SF in tact if not better for the Ele/Sin folks. I understand thier motive, but the results should be obvious now.

IMHO Anets attempt to balance Ursan - Good Work!

IMHO Anets attempt to include more people in gameplay - Fail! This hurt more of your average player base than it helped. Now only elite players and guild teams can do this with Ursan, and the Shadow Form folks continue to prosper. Had this been a truely fair update to all classes and levels of player, Armbraces and Ectos would have skyrocketed.

Anet - I hope you seriously re-look this situation before you lose more players in the ever shrinking world you control.

As I said before, PUGs need a meta to succeed. They will require you to run the meta, no matter what it is. If it's 5 eles, a warrior and 2 monks, they're not gonna take anything else, even valid variations (Me/E fast-cast, N/E, Rt/E) cecause it's always been like this, yada yada. They don't wanna think, they wanna win.

Don't wanna play the meta? 2 choices IMO.
- Guild + friend list. If you are in the right guild, and friends with the right people, you won't need to run cookie-cutter or the meta in order to succeed, because they'll know better.

- Make your own group. Yesterday, we were 2 warriors, a sin, 2 healers, 2 necros and an ele. We did fine before our guild monk got too tired to keep up :P.

But with PUGs, you need the meta. They're never gonna switch the mentality, even if you SHOW them other ways...

The Ursan nerf IMO SHOULDN'T have hurt the fanbase. Why? Because this game, at base, is about player skill. You're expected to know the basics.

However, the way Ursan was implemented, it was extremely easy to pick up the game, run crappy builds until you got to R10 and then farm elite areas in the easiest way possible.

And now that's it gone, the players who did that (pick up the game and going straight for Ursan stuff) don't know anything about making a decent, viable build. They got their 1337 weapons and armor, but I doubt they know how this game fully works. If people cry that the game is hard now that Ursan is nerfed, they need to adjust or quit. Some chose to quit, other chose to adjust, and some chose to QQ to get their OP'ed skill back.

It's a cycle. Ursan was nothing more than a meta that was extremely OP'ed. We're now back to other metas, and after this one there's gonna be another...

Shursh · Aug 19, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

Ursan was nerfed/buffed supposedly to make it so people did not have to grind to R10 Norn to get in a group, but now, guess what? There are no Ursan groups!! The work arounds are more complex and now you will only be able to take guild teams in with Ursan because of that. Being an ursan now excludes you from more runs than it would have gotten you into with PUG team.

The activity level has dropped significantly and since they are delaying the Hall of Monuments upgrade to tormented wepons, they have not created a higher demand for Gems/Ecto so nobody is working on a PUGable DOA/UW team.

I think the Ursan Nerf was a good idea for the most part, but they also needed to include something that would make the Farms/Runs of these areas just as appealing.

As far as I am concerned this will work out just fine for me. What my concern /complaint is that more and more mainstream/average people are playing less and/or quitting. I hate to see that. More people playing makes for a more enjoyable experience. Anet took away something from All Classes, yet left SF in tact if not better for the Ele/Sin folks. I understand thier motive, but the results should be obvious now.

I've only been playing for a few months now (and still consider myself to be a bit of a newb), so please correct me if I'm wrong, but:

1. The ursan nerf was because it was overpowered, not because people didn't want to grind their norn title (btw, i've never learned the UB skill). Now it takes more planning, strategy, and overall player skill to run an 8-man team based around this skill - which is why you won't see it much anymore with the average PUG. but since when was having to go into elite areas with pre-planning and build tweaking a bad thing?

2. There are still plenty of reasons to go to elite areas, first and foremost: the challenge. I honestly don't go to FOW or UW anymore to farm (and people that still do chaos plains farming imo deserve every ecto they may or may not make...can't stand seeing that hazy blue aura anymore lol) - I go to these places for the challenge of clearing them. I have NEVER cleared UW or FOW with a team before, and that's what keeps bringing me back.

3. If the ursan nerf is what drives people out of the game, then so be it. The people that are left are the ones that truly appreciate what this game has to offer. Let's face it - UB was a crutch, and ANET's finally taken away the training wheels. Now start pedaling.